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level of investment in manufacturing hasn’t happened in the US in more than half a century.” Q&A with Ascend Elements CEO Mike O’Kronley","this-level-of-investment-in-manufacturing-hasnt-happened-in-the-us-in-more-than-half-a-century-qa-with-ascend-elements-ceo-mike-okronley","article/this-level-of-investment-in-manufacturing-hasnt-happened-in-the-us-in-more-than-half-a-century-qa-with-ascend-elements-ceo-mike-okronley",{"_uid":557,"date":558,"tags":559,"editor":563,"content":573,"excerpt":765,"featured":50,"reporter":766,"_editable":770,"component":771,"seo_title":553,"categories":772,"visibility":784,"author_company":49,"featured_image":785,"seo_description":765,"author_full_name":49,"author_job_title":49,"formattedDate":789,"formattedArticleDate":790},"79b59374-0287-4d3d-9515-c1a09cc43581","2023-10-17 00:00",[560],{"slug":561,"name":562},"qa","Q&A",[564],{"slug":565,"name":566,"content":567},"matthew-bird","Matthew Bird",{"job_title":568,"image":569,"bio":571,"linkedin":572},"Senior Editor - Supply Chains & Data Visualisation",{"filename":570},"https://a.storyblok.com/f/287943243085208/512x512/14738033ec/matthew-bird.jpeg","Matthew writes, edits and produces content for Benchmark Intelligence and Benchmark Source across the whole mine to grid supply chain. He also acts as a liaison to the press. He has a PhD in electrochemistry from the University of Nottingham.","https://www.linkedin.com/in/birdmatthew/",{"type":574,"content":575},"doc",[576,583,598,603,608,613,618,625,637,642,647,652,661,666,671,676,681,694,699,704,709,714,719,724,735,740,745,750,755,760],{"type":577,"attrs":578,"content":579},"paragraph",{"textAlign":49},[580],{"text":581,"type":582},"A year ago Ascend Elements broke ground on the first plant in the US to produce precursor cathode active materials (pCAM), a key part of the battery supply chain that is currently dominated by Chinese companies. ","text",{"type":577,"attrs":584,"content":585},{"textAlign":49},[586,588,596],{"text":587,"type":582},"China currently has 91% of global production capacity of pCAM, according to ",{"text":589,"type":582,"marks":590},"Benchmark",[591],{"type":592,"attrs":593},"link",{"href":594,"uuid":49,"anchor":49,"target":49,"linktype":595},"https://www.benchmarkminerals.com/forecasts/cathode/","url",{"text":597,"type":582},".  ",{"type":577,"attrs":599,"content":600},{"textAlign":49},[601],{"text":602,"type":582},"This summer Ascend said it had signed a multi-year contract to supply around $1 billion worth of pCAM for use in a “major US company’s battery manufacturing process,” beginning in the fourth quarter of next year. It didn’t name the company. ",{"type":577,"attrs":604,"content":605},{"textAlign":49},[606],{"text":607,"type":582},"Ascend produces pCAM directly from recycled battery materials, without the need to first separate out the individual metals. The company’s co-founders filed their first patent for this “hydro-to-cathode” process in 2012 at Worcester Polytechnic Institute. ",{"type":577,"attrs":609,"content":610},{"textAlign":49},[611],{"text":612,"type":582},"Its chief executive Mike O’Kronley is a “long-time automotive person” who previously worked for US battery startup A123 Systems and before that Bosch. Manufacturing is “in his blood,” he says. ",{"type":577,"attrs":614,"content":615},{"textAlign":49},[616],{"text":617,"type":582},"Benchmark Source sat down with O’Kronley to learn more. ",{"type":619,"attrs":620,"content":622},"heading",{"level":621,"textAlign":49},4,[623],{"text":624,"type":582},"China has almost 100% dominance of the pCAM supply chain. How much of a risk is that? ",{"type":577,"attrs":626,"content":627},{"textAlign":49},[628,630,635],{"text":629,"type":582},"In order to make it all work … You have to have pieces of the ",{"text":631,"type":582,"marks":632},"entire",[633],{"type":634},"italic",{"text":636,"type":582}," supply chain. And so you can’t leave one piece out. There has been a lot of work that’s been done on battery assembly. There’s been a lot of work and even a lot of announcements on CAM [cathode active material] production in the US, but next to no announcements on pCAM. And so, there’s certainly a void there. There’s a lot of pCAM production coming from Asia – there is quite a bit that exists in Korea, but the vast majority of it, 80 plus percent, is all China. We focus on NMC materials now, so it’s not the only type of material, but with respect to NMC materials there’s virtually no pCAM production in the United States currently.",{"type":619,"attrs":638,"content":639},{"level":621,"textAlign":49},[640],{"text":641,"type":582},"How do you compete with the Chinese players? How competitive is your process compared to current production?",{"type":577,"attrs":643,"content":644},{"textAlign":49},[645],{"text":646,"type":582},"We have proven with several customers that we can offer the same pricing – landed price in the US – as the lowest cost Chinese producer. The process is very efficient, it is lower capex, it is lower opex, but also, when you consider the cost of the feedstock, we are not paying full metal market price for our raw materials. Whereas a typical pCAM producer is going to be paying a much higher price for their raw materials. Our raw materials are essentially spent lithium ion batteries so that also changes the cost dynamic. Even though we’re not at the scale of some of the really big pCAM producers in China, we’re still able to compete very effectively on price.",{"type":577,"attrs":648,"content":649},{"textAlign":49},[650],{"text":651,"type":582},"So we don’t necessarily need the subsidies to make that happen.",{"type":577,"attrs":653,"content":654},{"textAlign":49},[655],{"type":656,"attrs":657},"image",{"id":49,"alt":658,"src":659,"title":49,"source":49,"copyright":49,"meta_data":660},"","https://a.storyblok.com/f/287943243085208/7f8df830b4/bm-mike-okronley-1-sm.jpg",{},{"type":619,"attrs":662,"content":663},{"level":621,"textAlign":49},[664],{"text":665,"type":582},"With all these gigafactories coming on, what percentage of material is coming from manufacturing scrap versus end-of-life batteries?",{"type":577,"attrs":667,"content":668},{"textAlign":49},[669],{"text":670,"type":582},"I think a number that is often getting quoted is 78% last year, which I can confirm from our own perspective. The vast majority of it is manufacturing scrap. In fact, I would peg it at over 80% of what Ascend Elements is getting, is manufacturing scrap to process. But what I would also say is that it is our preferred scrap. Not because it’s easier to process but because of the constitution of the manufacturing scrap relative to end-of-life batteries. ",{"type":577,"attrs":672,"content":673},{"textAlign":49},[674],{"text":675,"type":582},"In fact, we ultimately need the feedstock that has the highest amount of nickel possible because of our products and as a result, if you look across the market, where is the highest amount of nickel of any battery product? It’s from manufacturing scrap, particularly EVs. ",{"type":619,"attrs":677,"content":678},{"level":621,"textAlign":49},[679],{"text":680,"type":582},"So what happens when in the future you get end-of-life batteries back with an older cathode technology but yet cathode technology has moved on and you’re producing a different cathode, is your process adjustable?",{"type":577,"attrs":682,"content":683},{"textAlign":49},[684,686,692],{"text":685,"type":582},"Yes, the process is adjustable. We bring in batteries and we discharge them, then we mechanically shred them to make black mass. We can also purchase black mass. Because it’s coming from end-of-life batteries and from manufacturing scrap the amount of nickel, manganese, and cobalt – that ratio varies. Once we have the ",{"text":687,"type":582,"marks":688},"black mass",[689],{"type":592,"attrs":690},{"href":691,"uuid":49,"anchor":49,"target":49,"linktype":595},"https://www.benchmarkminerals.com/price-assessments/black-mass/portal/",{"text":693,"type":582},", we transform it, we get it into a solution, we leach it in an acid, this is typical of the hydromet process. ",{"type":577,"attrs":695,"content":696},{"textAlign":49},[697],{"text":698,"type":582},"But where our unique technology comes in is we clean up that solution by removing all of the impurities, that’s a big part of our IP. We do not separate out nickel, manganese and cobalt, which is what is typically done in industry. We keep them together. And then we readjust the ratio of nickel, manganese, and cobalt. So if we are bringing in a 10-year-old battery that is, for example, NMC 111 or a NMC 622, and we’re making it an NMC 811 we effectively have to add nickel to that solution to get the metal ratio. And so we would either make our own nickel sulphate from black mass, or we would source from one of our partners. So there’ll be a certain amount of virgin material that’s in there as well. ",{"type":619,"attrs":700,"content":701},{"level":621,"textAlign":49},[702],{"text":703,"type":582},"You’re claiming a 90% reduction in carbon footprint compared to battery materials made from mined metals. Where does that reduction come from in the process? ",{"type":577,"attrs":705,"content":706},{"textAlign":49},[707],{"text":708,"type":582},"There are a few areas that it comes from. One is the hydro-to-cathode process itself. It’s more efficient. Also recognise that our feedstock is starting with a very concentrated source of nickel, manganese, cobalt and lithium. So nowhere in the world is there more concentrated source of lithium than in a lithium ion battery. It’s not the brine, it’s not the hardrock – lithium ion batteries are more concentrated than anywhere else on the planet. So when you start with a concentrated source, there’s already natural efficiencies there. ",{"type":577,"attrs":710,"content":711},{"textAlign":49},[712],{"text":713,"type":582},"The hydro-to-cathode process because it is a hydro process, it’s not a thermal process, it is more efficient. The fact that we don’t separate out the three key metals we keep them together, it’s more efficient. ",{"type":577,"attrs":715,"content":716},{"textAlign":49},[717],{"text":718,"type":582},"When you look at the type of energy that we’re using, in our process, it’s all hydroelectric. We’re located in Kentucky, the vast majority of all the energy that’s produced by our local utility is all hydro electric. So it’s renewable. That’s very different from what is typically done for the average grid in China. That will change over time. ",{"type":577,"attrs":720,"content":721},{"textAlign":49},[722],{"text":723,"type":582},"But then, the third area is actually the credits that we get for recycling other products that don’t go into cathode material. So when you recycle a battery, we are recycling, graphite, copper, aluminium. And we don’t use that in our end product. But we get we’re still recycling it. So we actively get credit for that. When we return that back into the supply chain, there are credits that we effectively get. And so that would be true of any recycling company or any company that’s making materials in a circular fashion. They would get those types of credits. ",{"type":619,"attrs":725,"content":726},{"level":621,"textAlign":49},[727,729,733],{"text":728,"type":582},"How do you think ",{"text":687,"type":582,"marks":730},[731],{"type":592,"attrs":732},{"href":691,"uuid":49,"anchor":49,"target":49,"linktype":595},{"text":734,"type":582}," will be priced in North America? ",{"type":577,"attrs":736,"content":737},{"textAlign":49},[738],{"text":739,"type":582},"There are, I would say, broadly two categories that affect price: one is the inherent metal content in black mass. Everyone understands that because you can measure it. The challenge with the black mass is what else comes with it. So it’s not all the same. It doesn’t process the same. Some producers of black mass have a lot of moisture content that has to be dealt with. There are a lot of different impurities depending on how they’re producing it. ",{"type":577,"attrs":741,"content":742},{"textAlign":49},[743],{"text":744,"type":582},"What they put into a shredder will potentially put a lot of impurities into the black mass. So as an example, companies that put an entire battery pack into a shredder, effectively what they’re doing is the valuable metal content in that battery is going down in the black mass. You’re also introducing a high fraction of impurities. ",{"type":577,"attrs":746,"content":747},{"textAlign":49},[748],{"text":749,"type":582},"So the black mass that’s produced from somebody shredding an entire battery pack is going to be less than black mass that has relatively low impurities. So that’s a big part of it. So there won’t be a uniform price for black mass as an example … Because somebody that’s processing it is going to have to deal with those impurities.",{"type":619,"attrs":751,"content":752},{"level":621,"textAlign":49},[753],{"text":754,"type":582},"Overall, how will this time be different to what happened under President Barack Obama, when battery companies like A123 were supported by the government but ended up not suceeding? ",{"type":577,"attrs":756,"content":757},{"textAlign":49},[758],{"text":759,"type":582},"The intention was exactly the same … The reason why it didn’t work largely in the United States at that time, is the market just wasn’t ready. He was too early. This time is very different. The major difference is the market is ready. There’s a market demand right now that exists for EVs and energy storage. ",{"type":577,"attrs":761,"content":762},{"textAlign":49},[763],{"text":764,"type":582},"It is really fantastic to see and to be part of this manufacturing revolution that’s happened in the United States, so much capacity and infrastructure is going in from a manufacturing perspective, making things again. And so I love seeing that. This level of investment in manufacturing hasn’t happened in the US for more than half a century. And so seeing that investment in manufacturing, again, is something that I certainly haven’t seen in my lifetime.","A year ago Ascend Elements broke ground on the first plant in the US to produce precursor cathode active materials (pCAM), a key part of the battery supply chain that is currently dominated by Chinese companies. China currently has 91% of global production capacity of pCAM, according to Benchmark. This summer Ascend said it had […]",[767],{"slug":565,"name":566,"content":768},{"job_title":568,"image":769,"bio":571,"linkedin":572},{"filename":570},"\u003C!--#storyblok#{\"name\": \"article\", \"space\": \"\", \"uid\": \"79b59374-0287-4d3d-9515-c1a09cc43581\", \"id\": \"\"}-->","article",[773,776,778,781],{"slug":774,"name":775},"batteries","Batteries",{"slug":777,"name":299},"cathode",{"slug":779,"name":780},"recycling","Recycling",{"slug":782,"name":783},"sustainability","Sustainability","private",{"id":49,"alt":658,"name":658,"focus":658,"title":658,"source":658,"filename":786,"copyright":658,"fieldtype":787,"meta_data":788,"is_external_url":51},"https://a.storyblok.com/f/287943243085208/96e7643622/bm-mike-okronley-2023-2.jpg","asset",{"alt":658,"title":658,"source":658,"copyright":658},"Oct 17, 2023","17th October 2023",[],[],1792688579344]